From Organic Design

Peder, please, don't touch this page. If you do not respect my wishes in this, I will be forced to keep my notes elsewhere.

you got it, i wont touch it. :) That is what your talk page is for! --Phalseid 15:45, 30 Sep 2006 (NZST)

I'm doing this for you, because you asked me to and because I trust you, and it might help you see why I find this environment so difficult. I am tracking my understanding as I learn this system for your benefit.

i understand your frustration, and this is the perfect place to get it out. I suggest setting up a new page to "vent" that we can all learn from and respond to. Typically, your Talk page is the most public of pages. To secure a page from public (all admins can still see it), just add <read>Epte</read> to the properties pages of that article --Phalseid 16:11, 30 Sep 2006 (NZST)
Right, but the Epte page isn't the most public of pages... The Epte page is writable by me and readable by everybody. I don't see how you ended up being able to write to it, unless it's because you're an admin :P Epte 10:14, 1 Oct 2006 (NZST)
Also, you misunderstand. My Epte page is not a venting page. It is a page for my reference as I tackle these projects. To go back and say, "Ah, that's how I came to understand that." To say to Peder, "Now I have a bulleted list of my frustrations for you to benefit from." To have you editing that page would be akin to you marking all over my class notes or current research jottings. Epte 10:14, 1 Oct 2006 (NZST)
and im doing this for you, i figured the only way to get you to what i see is to pay you, and bring you kicking and screaming. but, you do trust me. and i trust you. --Phalseid 16:06, 30 Sep 2006 (NZST)
I'm not "kicking and screaming". I am struggling a bit. You see value in having me as a developer for this platform, and that is what you're paying for, that and the end product. I think I just said the same thing as you, but in different wording (are we agreeing here?) Epte 10:14, 1 Oct 2006 (NZST)

Normally, displaying your inner thought processes to clients is at least dangerous, if not downright stupid.

true. but keeping your thoughts inside from those that can help is as well. I know we are talking on two different pages right now.... LOL (but i CAN'T TOUCH IT!) --Phalseid 15:57, 30 Sep 2006 (NZST)
I'm not talking about prepared questions here. I'm talking about displaying my mis- and non- understandings and how I go about learning about this system. That's being extremely vulnerable. Epte 10:14, 1 Oct 2006 (NZST)

OK, here's where I'm going to throw my notes.


yep, knew that. Had yet to include it here. Thanks though Epte 08:06, 1 Oct 2006 (NZST)
I knew not to touch Operationscan. The Demoscan, when looking at it, seemed as if it might have been taken over by production usage. I was going to ask you about that soon.

Understanding URLs

div0=fcre for now --Phalseid 22:05, 28 Sep 2006 (NZST)
do not have the modrewrite stuff going on there. sorry. --Phalseid 22:27, 28 Sep 2006 (NZST)

Understanding metawiki syntax

  • Peder, is there an equivalent in metawiki for the nowiki tags in regular wiki syntax?
  • I am open to suggestions as to how to wiki-code the code for the operation scan page such that it shows up in the article like it does in the edit page.

My Learning

Don't take these sections of mine as a knock on your ability to communicate or as a frustration at my inability to understand. With complicated systems, sometimes you just have to tinker with them until you "get it". Believe me, your explanations are helping a ton -- they're making these learning sections possible.


  • Wikiexpert takes a long time to respond (maybe just my dumb laptop?)
yeah, it has been slow for me too...i will keep an eye on it
I've been finding it incredibly fast, compared to most sites even most of our local sites are slower

--Nad 10:45, 1 Oct 2006 (NZST)

My bad -- I discovered a different local computer for me was much faster. It's a problem on my end Epte 11:11, 1 Oct 2006 (NZST)
  • need to login to both wikiexpert and div0
set "remember me"
I have no clue how to do that Epte 09:55, 1 Oct 2006 (NZST)
just the checkbox when you login, sets a cookie. --Phalseid 16:01, 30 Sep 2006 (NZST)
  • At least 12 theoretical URL permutations out of which 2 work. And I know I've seen URLS... I don't feel I can trust my intuition.
im not quite sure what you're saying here...adeft should have nothing to do with this.
Peder, I've seen various URL permutations. It's been confusing seeing various ones. I was trying to finally get clear on what I should use. The above were possibilities that presented themselves to me, because there is not an obvious, unambiguous naming scheme.
yeah, i changed them as i went on and did a very bad job documenting. the article, html, and .php pages should all have the same root name.
also see Talk:Organicdesign.vhost
If in doubt, use the long form of URL - that's the only kind you can use if you need a query string and its the real URL of a page. All other forms are shortcuts for the long ?title=bla bla kind. The shortest form where there's no index.php at all are called Friendly URL's. --Nad 10:45, 1 Oct 2006 (NZST)

Keep it simple and just do the work on Div0... the sync is just one way (wikiexpert-->div0) --Phalseid 22:23, 28 Sep 2006 (NZST)

OK. And at one time you said to put everything on wikiexpert, but now I see that doesn't apply for the actual work. Thank you for clarifying.

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with all these transcludes and applies, but a couple of notes may help:

  • Read talk:document.php which explains the apply and embed syntax
  • Read Apply examples too
  • Applying and embedding only works on local articles - not http links
Yeah, I _just_ figured that out for myself.  :-) (though I'm still trying to figure out what exactly "local" means. I thought div0 and wikiexpert were on the same box. If not, why did I think that? If so, they must be in different "contexts" of some sort, and what does a "context" entail? Epte 11:11, 1 Oct 2006 (NZST)

Thank you for the links. Reading them currently Epte 11:11, 1 Oct 2006 (NZST)